Site Discussions

Well written article, I read several facts that I found interesting. On a somewhat tangential subject, would it not be cost effective to mix in lime with the salt/sand to help neutralize acid rain until we correct toxic emmisions? Thanks for the write up.

I appreciated your sensible view, Dave.  I shared your editorial with a 25 year-old niece who is struggling to make sense of all the anti-government rhetoric of an election year contrasted with her strong environmental ethic.  She admits to not knowing what to think.  This piece adeptly shows how governmental actions at the local level are easy to ridicule as they must content with inherent contradictions.

Wasn’t it Lincoln who said something to the effect that we get the sort of leadership we deserve?

That said, the fundamental flaw in the grand plan is that we are addicted to the idea that government intervention solves problems-partly because it absolves us of responsibility. We also want the government to figure out how we’re supposed to live together with different opinions and focuses because we’d rather not have to think for ourselves—at least not in a balanced way that looks at entire issues.

Yes, I’m from Maine, but I’m afraid I don’t have any inside information or magic tricks regarding the situation in Old Town. But I do know this. The current governor is trying to invoke some common sense. He actually is saying there are some things we just can’t afford to do. Steps like that cause some of the symptoms of withdrawal from addiction among the general population.

In the allowance example (an excellent one) if we didn’t have the ten bucks to give the kid to start with an entirely different scenario starts to develop wherein the kid has to think, make smart choices, and actually earn his own way.

When did that become wrong?

Thanks, Ms. Barlow, for another fascinating and enlightening article.  I’d known about salt-sensitive and salt-tolerant plants, but I never knew the biology and chemistry behind them.  I believe that Maine is using a new chemical on the roads (not salt brine, and still mixed with sand) that, while more effective on ice, is worse for vehicles.  Of course I wonder if it is also worse for plants.  I will have to try and find out.

While there certainly are concerns about trust (honesty), there are even bigger concerns about competence. To be blunt, the US government is fundamental inept. It’s very difficult to support this type of organization at just about any level.

Hi, I write a local nature column and had fixated this week on finding out why paper birch bark is so white—what makes it white versus why the light color is a good adaptation to northern latitudes.  You talk about this at the end of this article.  I had thought that yellow birch bark is higher in betulin than paper birch bark (am probably wrong), but, if this is true, is it the arrangement of the crystals in the outer bark that make paper birch more reflective? Or conversely, something else in the yellow birch bark that make it more reflective.  Your’s is the first article I’ve found about what makes paper birch white—do you have any suggestions for more background on this?

If I do write this up, can I quote/reference your Northern Woodlands article?

Thanks
Sue

I’m starting to appreciate the aesthetics of Christmas tree growers—my father-in-law has a small Christmas tree farm and we always get a lot of compliments on our trees we get from him.  They have a lovely conical shape and have been obviously trimmed but don’t have that super-dense look where the branch tips are almost going back on themselves.  It would be fun to compare trees from a set of growers and try to understand each person’s trimming style!

I was surprised to not to find mention of the classic shenandoah until the last entry. I wore out a couple used ones before buying a new one a few years ago. A bit of a wood hog but it heats great and takes big wood. Comes in a box or barrel and when it gets old it works great outside boilin sap.

This came in as a letter to the editor.

Dave,

In response to your question I would recommend any Vermont Castings stove built before the requirement for a catalytic converter. If they are used in the “open” mode at low temps, and in the “closed” at high temps, they are very efficient and almost indestructible. Parts are also generally available. I’ve been heating with both used and new VC’s for over 30 years,

Alan M. Robertson
Sheffield, VT

We have had a Shenandoah stove for 39 years. This is your classic heavy sheet metal stove, firebrick lined , with a bimetal “thermostatic” damper and a flat cooktop. Ashpan is under the grates which makes it esy to simply take out the ashes without letting the fire go out like many of the old Ashleys. We burn 4.5 cords per year, heating a 1843 farmhouse that kinda slows the wind down. We tried a Vermont castings cat stove for one winter and it warped, cracked and was generally useless. The Shenandoah is butt ugly but dependable. Being a forester cutting his firewood on his own woodlot, we burn just about anything.No chimney fires either.

When it comes to advise… my bias is the best advise is in finding the options and figuring the balance. In a sense, instead of over-worrying about making the right decision we may a decision and then make the decision right.

I think Lian is right… the stove only one factor in the formula. For most people, the economics are going to be near the top of the list.

Wood size is is an important factor. Two years ago I replaced a “pretty” stove with one that is much more practical, partly because it takes a pretty decent size chunk of wood. It’s simple to operate, low maintenance. It’s old and not EPA approved, but we do our best to burn it properly. At $150 it didn’t break the bank.

I might think differently if I were heating full time with it.

My suggestion is to perhaps think less about the stove and more about how it’s going to be used and how it’s going to work.

We also have a Woodstock Soapstone that has a catalytic combuster. We love it!
We had a Vermont Castings prior, with out the catalytic combuster and it was terrible.
We didn’t dare leave it going when we were gone. It would puff smoke back into the house when the wind blew. So, I vote Woodstock Soap stone.

A good woodstove is a long-term investment, so it is worth choosing wisely depending on your personal preferences. I also prefer to buy a locally manufactured product, and we’re lucky in Vermont to have such choices. My local choice would be a Hearthstone product.  My personal preferences are traditional cast iron with good viewing of the fire.  Hearthstone has really perfected the design to keep the glass clean!  I’ve owned two catalytic stoves and probably would never buy another.  Very dry wood is a must and the catalytic combustors lose efficiency over time, not to mention they’re expensive to replace.  My best catalytic stove was a Consolidated Dutchwest before it was bought out by Vermont Castings and unsuccessfully redesigned - the most efficient stove I’ve owned in 30 years. The newer version sits in my basement unused, but I wouldn’t sell it to your friend! I love soapstone for appearances and own one, but I would have to say soapstone takes away from energy efficiency - it doesn’t conduct heat like a metal-bodied stove, hence more heat up the flue.  I’ve also used a Jotul (now on its 11th heating season) and have never spent a penny on repairs - it’s a real workhorse but the glass gets sooty after a few days, my only complaint.

I know a couple of thousand dollars sounds like a lot for a stove, but is it really?  Most folks in the US have at least one car, and most have spent north of $10,000 or more on one of those, and cars don’t even last as long as a wood stove.

Speaking to my situation, our house is heated with a masonry heater, a Tulikivi in our case.  Yes, they’re expensive, $15K to 30K, but again, that’s the price of a car and unlike a car, a masonry heater, cared for, lasts the life of a house.  It burns cleanly and efficiently and only needs tending once or twice a day.  Ours is 6 years old now and saves us about $1500 a year in natural gas.  If we heated with propane or oil, as more rural folks do, our savings would probably be double or tripled.

I bought a house in Aroostook County, Maine not too long ago that I hope to move to.  I don’t care if I have to drive a $1500 “beater” car in order to save up the money - I’m putting in a quality wood stove or masonry heater as I remodel the house (1000 sq ft.)  I am NOT heating even a small home through a County winter with $4.00/gallon heating oil that most likely will be come $5, $7, or even higher-priced heating oil in not too many more years.

In short, I’d recommend folks do whatever they can, to re-prioritize their economic lives to re-allocate more money for a quality alternative heating device.

I think wood stoves are one of those decisions that are as hard as you want to make it.  If you’re looking for an inexpensive alternative (i.e. used) you should save yourself the time and agony of trying to find the “perfect” stove and just hit up craigslist for an appropriately sized stove that’s cheap and for sale right around the corner.  And though some of the greatest stoves I’ve been around were no-name mysteries, so were some of the worst so I’d stick to well known models just to be safe.  I bought an old VTC Vigilant for $300 when I moved and it’s fine.  Not great, not terrible.  Whatever you get, you won’t have to worry about the environment as long as you install and maintain it correctly, and burn dry wood in hot fires.  Regardless of what you buy, every individual stove and installation has its own personality and there’s always a chance you won’t be happy with it.  So if you only paid $300, you can easily trade for something different.  If you paid $3000 for new, then you’re either stuck or you’ll lose a boatload of money getting rid of it.

If you cut and split your own wood, I would suggest a stove that burns longer wood (20”+) as long as it’s still appropriately sized for your house.  You’ll get more heat from fewer pieces which means less work for you, plus will stack easier.

Burning DRY wood is crucial and most people, safe to say, burn wood that’s wetter than optimal.  Dry wood only comes from the better part of a year covered under a solid non-leaking covering, split and stacked.  In the round give it another year unless air flow and sun is very high.  It can’t be emphasized enough how key dry wood is and how all too common it is for even old woodchucks to burn too-wet wood decade after decade.  I heat 1500 square feet of well insulated space on 1.5 cords and make all my hot water while doing most of my cooking and baking with that wood (on a Waterford cook stove.).  Wood is very dry though.

Here’s a plug for a Vermont Castings Madison, such as the basic black one that’s been heating half our house for the past six years. It’s post-catalytic, takes normal (16-18”) wood, has a side load, and has a self-adjusting spring thermostat. They run about $2K new and half of that used, and since they’ve been around awhile, there are used ones to be had. Nothing can beat an old Fisher in deer camp or an Atlantic for cooking bacon and eggs, but for all-around, clean-burning indoor use, I love the Madison.

Dave, Old is good.  Even if it’s just an old design.  I left the city 11 years ago. # years ago I bought an Amish dual fuel (wood and coal) cook stove which we use to heat the back half of the house.  We only use wood. It’s a little more work to keep it fed during the day - doesn’t hold a lot of wood, but at night it works fine and has a decent bed of coals that jump to life when I add a few sticks of wood and open the air controls a bit. The side benefit is roasting potatoes, baking squash, etc. in the oven, and simmering soup, perking coffee, etc. on the top plate.  The warming shelf keeps food warm and heats up cold platters.We cut our oil bill about 75 -90%, and now the delivery company has us on will call rather than automatic since our last delivery was 14 gallons.  I’m in the process now of installing an insert in the fireplace that I used 30 years ago in Buffalo.  My house there was 3500 sq ft, and I heated it with that stove.  It was so good the gas company came out and changed my meter - they thought something must be wrong with there’s.  Next they moved the meter outside since they were convinced I was messing with it. That has a thermostatically controlled fan and damper, and holds twice the amount of wood my cook stove holds.  The cast doors (with small glass windows) swing open and there is a screen insert for those times when you want the ambiance of a crackling wood fire.  Recently I was looking at the Northern Tool online catalog and they have several EPA approved free standing and insert stoves that are in the $700 to $1200 range.  I checked the installation/operation manual ( a pdf download) and they are manufactured in Quebec - not the US but at least North America.  They have some interesting advice on level of wood moisture.  The basic point, as others have mentioned, is only burn dry wood.  Otherwise you’re shooting yourself in the foot and increasing your risk of a chimney fire. To put a plug in for local economies, wood is in abundance in the northeast, yet many want us to engaged in fracking for gas.  Sequestered carbonaceous fuels are a train wreck waiting to happen - wood and other biomass fuels are part of the ongoing surface carbon cycle.  We have wood in abundance - the information I’ve seen says the standing timber increases every year (i.e., we are not using all we grow), and it’s transportation cost is low.  Sometimes it involves sweat equity, but hey . . . what can I say about that.  I’ve talked too long already.

My husband and I bought a used Woodstock Soapstone stove about seven years ago for $350.00.  It has a catalytic converter (or is it a combustor?).  We burn our stove pretty hot, so the converter is engaged much of the time.  The downside includes cleaning out the ashes (there is no ash pan), a rather dusty task.  The upside is the huge cost savings since we use the stove to heat the house with very little back-up from our furnace.  We have a center chimney that keeps the creosote down.  My husband cuts and splits wood off our property. Right now we’re using some red oak that is well-seasoned and burns beautifully. My husband says burning wood is a lifestyle!

We have two “Vigilant stoves” that came from Vermont Castings in Randolph,Vt. They are vintage 1978 and they work great. We cut 16 inch wood two years ahead of time. They get cleaned each spring. Both stoves have solid front doors(no windows).What you friend should pay attention to is the amount of insulation she has in her walls. The best stove in the world will not make up for poor insulation. We also have flexible(accordian) style pipes going up the inside of the chimney. They are 8 inches in diameter and keep the stoves gasses hot. This keeps the creosote from froming on the walls of the chimney liner. These puipes expand and contract with temperature and keeps the creosote from froming. In the spring the liner traps gets cleaned out.(we get about a cupful of soot when the liner is cleaned. The liner is made out of stainless steel and we have had it place since 1984.