Site Discussions

The problem is that both sides are wrongheaded and no one is giving common sense a chance, not that it ever gets a chance anywhere. The following story gives a little deeper background into the distrust that they have for the Fed.

SD Stockgrowers note fire double standard

“SD Stockgrowers Association supports full compensation to the ranchers who were harmed by the Pautre Fire, and believe that liability should be applied to the U.S. Forest Service the way the Hammonds were held liable for setting that fire.” - S.D. Stockgrowers Association President Bill Kluck

The South Dakota Stockgrowers Association sent letters this week to congressional delegates, the U.S. Attorney General’s office and the South Dakota Attorney General’s office questioning what they call “egregiously unbalanced response of federal land management agencies” and supporting the claims South Dakota ranchers made for compensation after the 2013 Pautre Fire burned nearly 10,000 acres of federal and private land.

“There is a big double standard being applied in these government land agencies,” said Stockgrowers President Bill Kluck. “We cannot support the use of terrorism laws against a family ranch while forest service staff are just allowed to go about their day. We’re not questioning who set these fires, but we’re very worried about how the law is being used.”

The 2013 Pautre Fire in South Dakota burned over 10,000 acres, about 3,000 of which was federally owned land and the rest was privately owned land. The U.S. Forest Service has refused to pay any damages and no employees have been charged with wrongdoing. Private landowners and ranchers affected by the blaze filed suit against the U.S. Forest Service last week after their claims for damage compensation were denied. The U.S. Forest Service ruled that the agency was not responsible for damages even though they intentionally set the fire, against recommendations from local ranchers and weather forecasters.

In the letter, President of the Association, Bill Kluck stated, “The kind of unchecked decision-making authority and lack of accountability from federal land management agencies as seen in the Pautre Fire, can and will be applied to other situations and likely at the expense of independent livestock producers and private property owners.”

SD Stockgrowers drew comparison to current situation in Oregon where a father and son have been sentenced to five years in federal prison after a prescribed burn on their private property burned less than 140 acres of federal property. The family is required to pay $400,000 in damages and was prosecuted under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, which carries a minimum 5-year sentence.

“SD Stockgrowers Association supports full compensation to the ranchers who were harmed by the Pautre Fire, and believe that liability should be applied to the U.S. Forest Service the way the Hammonds were held liable for setting that fire.”

“South Dakota Stockgrowers Association is very concerned about the lack of accountability and responsibility being applied to federal agencies in one case while private individuals are held to a much higher, and completely different level of responsibility in the other,” said Kluck.

“We are asking that our congressional delegates, the South Dakota Attorney General and U.S. Attorney’s office take a look at these cases to see how we can correct this injustice to the Hammond family and use their case to make sure that our South Dakota ranchers are able to hold the Forest Service accountable and liable for their actions on the Pautre Fire.”

–South Dakota Stockgrowers Association

As usual more thought provoking stuff from Northern Woodlands, keep it coming.
Thanks
Larry

The article below tells a deeper story too.  Also, Mormonism is involved with the Bundy clan so we have A LOT to think about with this Oregon saga.  Good idea to discuss all of this with maturing teenagers!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/01/07/1466961/-Paiute-tribal-chair-Don-t-tell-me-any-of-these-ranchers

You stated: “What we have here is a struggle to find a balance between individual liberty and broader social organization – it’s basically the essence of American democracy.” I disagree. Just like private landowners, state and federal agencies manage land for various goals and purposes. This is about how land can and should be managed by one or more federal agencies. I don’t see how that affects individual liberty. I can see how it might affect the economics of ranching. Those are different issues.

Dave, there is civil unrest due to the constant hacking away at individual rights by the Federal Government. Each generation accepts more, and soon your freedom has vanished. The people are tired of it and want it to stop. They can go to the ballot box, but that’s all rigged. Then they have their guns, at least for now. There aren’t many choices left.

Deer don’t seem to be particularly disturbed by Kubota Orange either.  If I see a deer while driving my tractor in the woods, the deer will stare until I get quite close before running.  If I stop and get off the tractor they run immediately. 

What would happen if I drove a Ford blue tractor; would they run sooner or is a tractor such an alien object in the woods that the deer does not recognize it as a potential threat?

Dave, you’re a master and a pleasure to read, and I hold this self-evident truth in my (albeit dwindling) portfolio of unassailable convictions. Thanks for keeping on. We all benefit.

Dave, your last sentence sums it up in a nutshell. I believe too that it is more skill and woodsmanship that kills deer than the newest camo pattern. My dad killed more deer than I can count and never wore anything but red and green. I believe he was just that good, but of course I’m biased! Great article as usual.

I raced in the Maiden days of that event and really enjoyed it.

I took a trip to Sapanta, Romania this fall.  While waiting for a minibus, I was delighted to watch two crows dropping walnuts onto the sidewalk below them to break the nuts open.  When this sometimes failed, they would drop them on the road hoping to have more luck. The Romanian man beside me could not speak English, but we both marveled at their intelligence and ability to come up with new solutions to old problems.

From the description of its voice, I think “My Crow” is probably a raven. :D

I located a wild hive hanging in the trees near my studio (in the woods) late in the summer. I thought it was Honey Bees, but the hive was so high I couldn’t quite tell. They were the same size but seemed darker in color.

I watched it for months and in the fall we had more rains than seemed normal and I stopped seeing bees frequenting it. The rains seemed to be making it deteriorate and then I saw no bees at all.

What would make the bees leave this nest?

Once I realized this beautiful nest was abandon, falling apart and the comb was becoming exposed, I cut the branch that it was hanging from and now it hangs from the ceiling in my studio.

Silly question but - Is there any chance if I take it back out in the spring a colony would patch the damage and use it again? It is amazingly beautiful (as you know). Would a new colony return to this sight? How long do they live in a wild hive? Mysterious to me why they would leave this hive…

I hope you will reply. Thank you!

So happy I stumbled upon this… Love crows!!! Every morning when I take the dog out, the symphony of hundreds of crows chattering away makes me smile.  Always wonder what they are chatting about… I enjoy the articles…

We have lived in this little neighborhood for a little over 40 years. In that time the area crows have developed from staying to the outskirts of the neighborhood to now actually nesting right in our back yard now and spend a fair amount of time on the lawn even when we are sitting out.

Many years ago, I approached a flock of crows feeding at a sewage plant. I was carrying a single shot .22 rifle.  The look-out bird gave the alarm and they all disappeared. Later, I approached the same area where the same gang of crows were feeding (perhaps), and I was carrying a wooden look-alike to my .22 rifle.  Not a single bird moved until I was within 20 feet of them.  I repeated this test several times with the same results.

Everyone seems to see mountain lions in Vermont, so where are all the photos? Everyone has a cell phone today that you can video with. Lets see the proof.

1/2/2016, 5:30 pm, I went outside and saw a opossum in my back yard eating the old dog food my husband threw out earlier.  I watch it and it went under a tarp that covers my fire pit and glider, which is also near our bird feeder.  I came onto this site to see if it was dangerous to my dog but I guess not so I’ll choke it up to just another one of God’s critters living here.

I bought 40 acres a little more than 20 years ago. At that time I had about six Black Birch trees. A forester friend walked my woods and was supersized to see these trees. He said he had not seen these anywhere around. Six years later I have my forest logged but those were spared. As my woodland started to grow back the Black Birch really took over. I like the trees but want more than just allot of Black Birch. I think I will allow them to fight for the light and after many die from lack of sun I think I will cut and replace with Black Walnut. How big do these need to be to have a value?

Hi there,

I found a mourning dove sitting on the snow covered ground this morning.  Still alive, but it did not flee, despite my leashed dog.  The bird seemed cold so I brought it in, thinking it would soon die.  To my surprise, it seems to be sleeping/recuperating.  I have no bird experience and am willing to help the bird through the winter if necessary. 

I would like advice or at least a resource for care and feeding.  Thank you

I live in Atlanta, GA. A 40 ft tall pecan tree (related to hickory) in my neighbor’s back yard was decorated with what I thought was a bioluminescent fungus for a few days beginning December 26, 2015.  It was warm (72 F) rainy, damp weather. The tree had 25-30 little (1-2”) blue/green Christmas lights in the tree.

I believe I have a shrew living in my house. At first I thought it was a regular mouse, but then I got a good look at it.  It’s approximately 3 inches long, dark in colour, and appears not to have a tail.  It’s very bold and loves my dog’s food.  I have been unsuccessful trapping with regular mouse traps.  Any suggestions?