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Should Vermont Require Licenses For Foresters?

There’s this recurring debate every election cycle about whether we need more or less government in our lives. And it’s never going to end because most of us are conflicted on the matter. We’re a nation imbued with the anti-government ethos of our founders and the libertarian spirit of the frontier; at the same time we’ve come to really like the fact that there’s a regulatory framework designed to keep toxic sludge out of our rivers and rat meat out of our sausage. All of this is to say that we’re capable of seeing government regulation as both a bane and a balm, sometimes simultaneously.

I’m no better than anyone else in this regard, so when it comes to issues concerning government regulation I don’t trust my knee-jerk response. In Vermont, for instance, the powers that be are debating whether or not foresters should be required to become licensed by the state. And it’s pretty easy for me to construct a scenario in my mind where licensing would be a good thing. Would you feel better having your interests represented by a lawyer who had taken and passed the bar exam, or someone who watched Law & Order and just decided he liked the legal profession?

But I’m equally capable of seeing the whole thing as a needless bureaucratic exercise. As a sugarmaker, I can tell you that the only difference between my maple syrup and the certified organic stuff being made up the road is that I don’t have to pay the certifying body a join-our-club fee and you don’t have to pay a premium for a little sticker on the jug telling you that an inherently organic product is organic. This isn’t quite the same thing, but it’s the same spirit and the same point that a little piece of paper (and a fistful of dollars changing hands) doesn’t necessarily mean a better job or product, but will almost always mean a more expensive one for the consumer.

So I put knee braces on both my left and my right knee (to keep them from jerking) and waded, stiff legged, into the forester certification issue in an attempt to triangulate truth. My first step was to ask some Vermont foresters what they thought, and I kept things off the record to ensure candor. One retired forester told me that in his experience (and at 88 years old his experience is quite extensive) it’s the person, not the license, who determines if the work will be good or bad in most any trade. A young forester right out of forestry school told me that since the majority of the state’s woodland is in Current Use, and county foresters have to check off on Current Use plans, the county foresters are already a means of ensuring good work. She also wondered about the educational requirements, having recently gone through a pesticide licensing process where she learned “NOTHING.” [The caps were her emphasis.] A third forester was similarly skeptical, referring to some of his continuing ed as “a joke.” Having previously practiced in a state where forester licensing was mandatory, he said the Achilles’ heel was enforcement, which was either non-existent or easy to circumvent. An additional problem forestry has is that results can be subjective, he said. If a licensed surveyor is doing bad work, it’s pretty easy to check the math, and if the loop doesn’t close, lay down the law. Forestry is not so tidy, though. One man’s early successional cut is another’s ecological disaster. This thought was echoed by a fourth Vermont forester I spoke to, who said: “In my experience, foresters are asked to provide a range of services and in some cases three foresters would develop three different recommendations for the same service – and all would be right!  If the concern is poorly run timber harvests, the blame rests as much with landowner greed as with unprofessional forester conduct.”

I talked to a forester in New Hampshire and one in Massachusetts – states that require licenses – and both told me that while they agreed with the idea of standards, they couldn’t really say whether licensing has had much of an effect on the quality of forestry being practiced. Both expressed concern about enforcement: “The existence of forester licensing is worthwhile, but realistically, enforcement must be meaningful, or it’s just another form of advertising,” one replied.

I tried to get some numbers from the state department of licensure in New Hampshire that would speak to the enforcement issue there, and was told that the board has had 22 complaints since 2001. Five of them were not within the jurisdiction of the board, two signed settlement agreements (one of those resulted in voluntary surrender of license), five were dismissed, four were directed to other agencies/organizations, four were confidential letters of concern.

So, one revoked license out of 22 complaints in 13 years. The numbers seem kind of underwhelming, but it’s hard to argue that getting rid of a bad apple is anything but good. And it’s clear that in this case the licensing system gave the landowner an outlet for her grievance and the state a means of policing the profession.

Until now we’ve been looking at the question of whether licensing is necessary, but the next logical question is: what will it cost? I’m not sure anyone can tell us what the administrative costs would be – other than the fact that they’d exist and that they’d better include not just a bureaucracy involved with registration, testing, licensing, but a separate wing involved with enforcement. (If enforcement is even possible.)

But by looking at other states, we can estimate the cost burden on foresters, which will run from hundreds of dollars in annual or biannual registration fees to conceivably tens of thousands of dollars in education costs if college degrees are deemed necessary. And we know that some of this is going to get passed on to the forestland owners who pay for these services; according to this study, prices go up about 15 percent when a trade becomes licensed. Proponents will argue that cleaning up the product will make landowners more inclined to hire a forester, which is in the foresters and the state’s best interest. This may be true, but I wouldn’t ignore the rise in the cost of service completely. One of the big complaints I hear from foresters is that many landowners are already loath to pay for the non-income-generating parts of good forestry. If the state wants to encourage people to use foresters – an unnecessary profession in the sense that you don’t need a forester to mark a timber sale any more than you need an architect to build a house – it needs to wonder what the consumer is willing to pay. We’re very good at wanting things in the abstract, but when push comes to shove, not wanting to pay for them.

We hear about gentrification of rural towns in the Northeast a lot – where an influx of out-of-state money leads to rising property values and higher taxes that squeeze out the locals. If not executed properly, I worry that licensure could become a form of intellectual gentrification. I hope the state sees that an exam-based system that allows for independent study and a robust apprenticeship program would keep the doors to the profession open to rural people with limited means who can’t go to college or don’t want to go to college. This would be a good thing. In a country where student loan debt has topped a trillion dollars, and according to one recent survey 83 percent of college seniors graduated without a job last spring, I hope the powers that be think twice before forcing aspiring foresters into oodles of debt.

The final nugget I’ll leave you with is that I couldn’t find any study anywhere that showed that licensing resulted in better quality work. I did find some that suggested there was no effect.

So that’s what I’ve been able to learn in a short amount of time. And it’s important to note that the people in my Rolodex and an hour spent on the internet shouldn’t be considered an unbiased sample. I wish I had a ringing endorsement to report in the interest of balance; if you think licensing is a great idea, please share with the group and tell us why. And let the state know your thoughts, pro or con, by clicking here.

Discussion *

Sep 06, 2014

As a forester who’s been managing woodland for well over 40 years I’ve read the discussion and have heard it before—many times. There are at several consultants operating in my area that I would not consider allowing in any woodland I own while they were in possession of a paint gun – in fact, I probably wouldn’t want them there under any circumstances. And then there’s the matter of industrial foresters whose responsibility is to their employer, not the landowner.

As was pointed out in the Editor’s Blog, two competent and ethical foresters can honestly come to quite different conclusions as to the best management of any particular stand—not to mention landowners’ varying and often ill-defined goals.

Physicians and attorneys and most other licensed professional seem to be unable or unwilling to weed out the incompetent and unethical; why foresters would be any different?

Charlie Schwarz
Sep 05, 2014

Dave,

I will first divulge I am a supporter of licensing, a practicing consultant and that I am licensed in Maine and New Hampshire. Further I have seen “foresters” or those purporting to be foresters take serious advantage of landowners.

I have been licensed since 1977 in Maine and somewhat more recently in NH (1993).  While you and others raise some good points the fact is that forestry is not just about managing the ecological components of a forest but it we consultants in many instances have an enormous fiduciary responsibility put into our hands when we represent clients. Therefore having a system where there is a consistent and objective system where a variety of users of forestry services could gain assurance that an individual has met an agreed upon set of requirements to claim to be an expert is important and overtime can become a valuable public asset.

You list a variety of reasons why licensing seems like a system looking for a problem that doesn’t exist. Sadly one of the problems is that that many landowners do not understand that there is a set of qualifications, including experience, that separate a logger, timber buyer or other person in the forest resources industry from a forester.  This is not a pejorative statement about other professionals like loggers but a logger and a forester should and do provide two very different services and those services require a very different skill and knowledge set.

To be honest, I would support the bonding or registration of loggers as well to assist landowners in making decisions on that front as well.  Back to the foresters first, however. Many landowners have no idea that the person who plans to manage their lands has no more qualifications to plan the future of their forest then someone off the street who knows what a tree is. The point is often made that landowners need to do their due diligence to determine whether the individual they are hiring or letting manage/harvest their timber is qualified.

In principle that sounds nice. Could you imagine if we did that with law, dentists, doctors, engineers or others professions or important occupations. Over time licensing will serve to better define the different service providers. I have an enormous respect for qualified professional loggers. While I can do some of their work I am not a logging professional.  It is interesting we point to the CLP or LEAP programs that require training as examples of raising the level of professionalism. While we have such certifications as ACF or CF designations those only serve to give guidance, but to claim to be a forester you don’t need to be a member of ACF or SAF.

Further you talk about increased costs to the consumer. The real cost is when unwittingly they think they have a qualified individual working their land and they are taken advantage to the tune of thousands of dollars or in damage to their woods that would take many decades to repair. Do we look at the cost of a medical degree and suggest we should let knowing individuals provide unregulated medical practice. Of course not. The cost of a forestry education is a choice not a demand any more that the cost of college is for any individual. Think of this. You have to be licensed in VT to cut hair but not to sell your services to be a forester.  I really don’t think a bad haircut is nearly as significant or damaging as a bad timber harvest.

I often think that this we don’t need to license foresters is often a reflection on how little the average consumer of these services understands as to the depth of knowledge a forest manager should have to properly manage their land. I could easily name 10-20 disciplines that professional foresters are trained in that that others while knowledgeable in part do not know or understand. Letting landowners and others know that this individual understands and is trained in these many fields should be viewed as a value worth objectively reviewing for the public by our government. Keep in mind the consumer is left with the option to use a licensed forester or not. Most state licensing laws only require those selling the service as foresters to be licensed. They do not require that a landowner must use a licensed forester.

For instance in Maine a landowner can sign their Tree Growth plan, but a forester must be licensed to sign their work for a landowner. A reasonable level of protection. While continuing ed is never perfect I am always frustrated by those that want to kill a program or minimize the impact of CE simply because it is not a perfect system. I am glad that when I go to a doctor I know their qualifications are regularly reviewed and checked, same with an attorney. Does that prevent malpractice, of course not, but it does provide legal, and often criminal versus only civil recourse. One key element that in my opinion leads to a small number of claims as you reported on in NH is that many landowners don’t even realize what happened wasn’t forest management. They may never really understand the financial loss they may have suffered.  If the roofer finishes and the roof leaks that becomes pretty apparent right away. A well done high grade is not so easily recognizable for the layman landowner.  Further the proper valuing of timber is an important role for a forester and if landowners were aware that there was a licensed profession to assist them we might see less timber theft, better stumpage values and many other benefits that foresters bring to their clients.

I know in Maine, a reasonably old licensing program has continually evolved and improved. Some bad actors are reported and prosecuted to the point of losing their right to practice as a forester in Maine. That is a heavier burden then we certainly have in VT which is none. Finally on the cost of licensing to consumers. If a forestry consultant is doing their job in a satisfactory manner their should always be a return on investment to the landowner that is far and away higher than working without the forester. Study after study has demonstrated that foresters pay for themselves handily. I appreciate the views of many of my colleagues who feel licensing is a burden. Unfortunately the burden is on the resource and the landowners who at times are on the end of advice they believe is coming from a qualified individual working in their interest. That is not always the case. I’ll likely raise a few hackles with this retort but I firmly believe that VT needs licensing and over time it will be a real benefit to landowners and the resource. Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

Richard G Carbonetti

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